PC

Hmm… this really is a tough subject, Babe. I wish I could say that we should be the epitome of the norm. But we’re not. I believe we’re definitely unusual.

Part of the problem is that the other person starts to feel left out, not needed, not enough, or something else. And if that happens, and you happen to be on your way of having fun, you may not want to stop or slow down to let him get back on board with you.

Honestly, I don’t think this has anything to do with whether or not you’re playing with a guy or a girl. The idea of two women being together is exciting to a lot of men. But sadly, their fantasies of watching and/or participating rarely will come true.

These days, you’ve become very sexual– much more so than usual. And you’ve become bolder, more experimental, etc. I’m not saying any of this is bad. There are some aspects of your sexuality that I’ve encouraged you for years to embrace as opposed to resent. So I consider most of this to be good. Not saying that any of it is bad.

While you’ve been going down this path, I have been having to do a lot of introspection to see where I fit in to the game plan.

I think we’ve come a long way in this journey. But it has mostly taken the upturn when you started to be more assertive with respect to making me live and play my part. Again, the key is your assertiveness. This is similar to the way I have had to be assertive with respect to getting you out there to actually be yourself.

The reason I stress this significance is it removes the guilt issues. And both parties have purpose and meaning in the marriage.

BTW, can we go back to normal, Hon? ;-)

*smooch* I love you!

  Jim

I hope you guys talk this stuff out this rationally and thoroughly face-to-face, too. I’d start, and 2 minutes in, my wife would say “what’s wrong with you? This is about you wanting more sex, isn’t it?”

:-)

  Vixen

LOL Jim, there is nothing to talk out. This wasn’t even about ‘us’. PC was rambling. ;)

  Vixen

Psst. Honey, I love you. ;)

  PC

Jim- I was talking mostly in general terms. Some of it was a little applicable to our situation. But we pretty much tried to head things off at the pass by analyzing things and dealing with them at the onset.

All’s good with us. And none of this has resulted in ME getting more sex. ;)

  Professor Fate

You know I could live in a relationship like yours. It isn’t a moral judgment. It is knowing my weaknesses and insecurities and neediness run more toward the stereotypical. I don’t share my toys well. I know she is used. I know others have played with her, but I don’t have to wonder if her refusal of my amorous advances is related to someone else.

You and PC are coming close to what I think is the heart of the matter. PC:”the other person starts to feel left out, not needed, not enough, or something else…and you happen to be on your way of having fun, you may not want to stop or slow down” You: “if one chooses to enter a monogamous relationship…you are making a choice to be with that one person.”

To me, making that one person “enough” is what monogamy is about. Life is choice. Marriage (committed relationship) is more about becoming a better human than it is about the two people being happy. That doesn’t mean that a relationship shouldn’t make you happy, but growth is not pain-free. In the end, it is a cost-benefit analysis. If long-term costs of your relationship is not worth the benefits, it may be time to move on.

If you are ONLY attracted to girls, but ONLY have sex with guys are you straight, gay or bi?
If I want to have sex with others but I don’t, am I still monogamous?
Is going outside of the marriage to get your emotional needs met cheating?

  Jeff

Very good topic. I like it. I would just weigh in to say that sometimes things are a little different. My wife is bisexual and has had some one night things with women but she refuses to have a relationhip with a woman (because women are too catty, she says). I would love for her to have this in her life and encourage her all the time to do so. FWIW, this is not about me getting to watch or participate. I would love this to be her thing because I can see it bringing her a lot of happiness and allowing her to fully realize herself. I think there is a lot of fear there and maybe some leftover guilt from the religion we were raised in and have since left.

Anyway, any good ideas on how to convince her to pursue this?

  Jim

That first comment was largely tongue in cheek, since I’m sure you two talk easily and regularly about any of these issues, but I just don’t have that sort of freedom with my own spouse, that’s all. I admire you both as a couple, very much.

I guess the part of your comment that caught my eye, PC, was your note about your own introspection, and trying to figure where you fit in her evolving “game plan” of her own sexuality. This is where your own relationship seems to run parallel to many other’s experiences, in which one or the other person (or both) finds it necessary to adjust to changing needs, unexplored interests, or new-found desires. While I’m no social scientist, I still find it very interesting how couples accomplish this transition, and enrich what they have together in the process.

  Vixen

jr- you intrigue me every time you answer one of these. I learn so much about you! :) You lived a very interesting childhood, those experiences are ones that can def mold you. But I guess it surprises me a tad bit that you are still as….wishful that things would move forward with your wife into an open marriage. Interesting to me.

Your wife it sounds like is held back by what she believes is good for you. Which isn’t necc a bad thing. Much better to over-think these things in the beg before ‘diving in’ then jumping in to swim only to realize you can’t. Make sense? LOL

Thanks for your openness and honesty regarding this.

  Vixen

Prof Fate, I think knowing your insecurities and weaknesses are highly beneficial.

I had to LOL at your not wanting to share your toys analogy. Good one….

And the questions you posed at the end of your comment, all good ones. I wonder those same things.

  Vixen

Hmm Jeff, I’m not sure how to help. The fact that she enjoys to ‘play’ but is against becoming involved in a relationship is something she has decided. I think it’s more about each individual’s comfort and how everyone is wired so differently.

You showing your continued positive encouragement I’m sure is a bonus and maybe at some point she will feel more comfortable pursuing a relationship. Or maybe not and this is what makes her happy, lol.

  Vixen

Jim, thanks for what you said.

And you put it very eloquently in what you said about “couples accomplishing such a transition, and enriching what they have together in the process”.

I agree.

  Vixen

Ok ok….lol. I get it ;)

  Barefoot Dreaming

hi – just saying I read…… I don’t know what else to say – too late, have to get up in five hours to walk. why do mornings need me?

  Vixen

Well…..hi ;)

(wanna come over and play???)

  Bat

It’s probably been said, but I think that the important definition of a relationship is what BOTH parties decide it is. I could never survive what you have, but the fact that you talk about it with each other and understand each other’s needs is something I strive to have in my relationship. Kudos to you and PC for finding common ground. More relationships (whatever the definition) would survive long term if the communication was as good as the two of you have.

  Dana

I’ve left this post in my reader, debating on whether to comment or not.

I am one of those women who “gave up” that side of myself – who opted for a “traditional” (and unfulfilling) marriage. I can honestly say that I would likely never be happy in a monogamous relationship – be it with a man or a woman. There are just qualities in both that I find so attractive, and missing in the other.

That said, I do believe I could be monogamous with one woman AND one man … just simultaneously … which kind of obliterates the idea of monogamy.

I’ve pretty much given up on finding the “perfect” relationship. It seems just too, for lack of a better word, odd to ever become a reality.

Factor in to that a teen-aged son and the impact my choices have on him, and the obstacles (for me) become insurmountable.

I settle, and I hate that I settle, but it seems the only “logical” choice in my life.

*shrugs* I admire those that are able to step outside of “traditional” and make it work, but have little hope that it will happen in my own life.

I don’t